say politically active directly against the regime at least let send me normal life there was electricity there was food distribution children went to the school without being kidnapped people's daily lives were not so deadly and this is what the occupation did to iraq so one one describes the consequences of the u.s. led occupation one is not justifying saddam's crimes one is pointing out that a country like iraq a great civilization has been brought down to its knees by this direct occupation the brutality of the occupation sort of past saddam's regime the tortures in the prisons of our book raban other secret prisons prisons set of past what saddam's torture chambers that so one is trying to see where iraq has travelled following the fair teen years of sanctions following the the brutal occupation and

this is what we are trying to resolve in iowa as well what is the future for iraq having traveled this through this bloody carnage and the united states today it's trying to further destabilize iraq so that it can have a regime in baghdad that only says yes and what washington wants and this is not easy to achieve that is why washington despite iraq occupying iraq still facing enormous opposition within the country even within parties that have cooperated with washington in the past because society hates us domination hated occupation hated the sanctions so there is deep rooted opposition to u.s. influence and but the united states has not given up or to wants iraq to be a client hundred percent client state otherwise that. promising us that they will

transform iraq to syria where it where a civil war or or a large scale fighting or kurds within the country there are terrorist groups already in iraq they have been active the occupation by the way brought terrorism to iraq there was not terrorism in the country in terms of these extremist theory type organizations and so forth so we need to find to discover where the iraqi people could go from here certainly the divisions being sold by the by the u.s. and its influence within iraq is leading the country into further disintegration ok all right there's a lot to chew on there i'd like to go to jerusalem right now again a failed state it sounds like to me mayor go ahead and i hear the pain in his voice because he's an iraqi and he loves his country and it's been oh he pains him to to to see and hear what is happening to iraq but unfortunately something i think the

situation's going to get worse now because as i mentioned before iraq is going to turn into a new area where. people are going to try to challenge iran's influence and the only way they going to do that is to bring more instability there prime minister nuri al maliki is seen as being close to iran and the saudis and the americans don't like that one bit specially the saudis and this is one of the reasons why we see instability in sunni areas and what really worries me is the recent called by al qaeda. forces iraqi sunnis to rise up and this is of course the last thing we can we can hope for the for those of us who want stability in iraq but just one more one more point i'd like to me you know i'm also an iranian iranian and israeli not the most popular countries in the middle east right now but in terms of in terms of. iranian history one thing i have to say is that you know what the west did in iran the toppling of dick and and his. of the west what iran i blame the

west for many things but i also think that we to people of the middle east have to look at ourselves also to see where we can bring reform where we can bring change and where we can stop outside powers basically taking advantage from us for their own goal ok pepe it seems to me interesting there is that there is a great difficulty for the people of the middle east to assert themselves and remember this region was colonized god one i know i don't want to go back too much into history but this is this is that reality that we have regions that were installed following world war one and the united states after world war two took over from the old colonial powers and they created within these societies fairly powerful political forces that that sure there are legions through to to the former colonial powers and to us imperialism and the intervention of after the us led

forces in these societies is the main factor in my opinion for destabilizing people it doesn't mean i'll back up anything here let's go ahead happy because i think it's it is too much external intervention that's the problem not reform we are putting the price of what happened one hundred years ago which was the betrayal of the great arab nation that would emerge after the end of the first world war and then france and britain the colonial powers at the time they divided the middle east between them basically and we also at the same time paying the price of the cia facilitated coup against mossad there in iran in one thousand fifty three so when you have these two together in the hole in the whole region that is actually southwest asia that we call the middle east westernized point of view of course which is wrong by the way. it's absolutely unsolvable and the new colonial power or new colonial imperialist power due west for the past forty fifty

years what they have been doing is they are aligned with the most also crafted and retrograde form of islam that there is in the persian gulf monarchies the petrodollar monarchies and against emancipation of southwest asian populations as a whole this in my view is the key thing so both our guests nailed it completely you run will never be totally independent because they are beyond call study imperialist intervention and the same for the rest of southwest asia iraq jordan these are jordan is an artificial country completely and even egypt in the north east africa as well so what's going on there from the pentagon point of view and now from the middle east to to i'm sorry for mena as they call it middle east north africa from them i grab it to the middle east you see out of this the villages ation of the ancient order but we need

a gram shit to tell us the ancient order is gone but if you one has not emerged and the pentagon wants to control the emergence of this new ward this is what is really horrible cannot cannot jump in i mean go ahead. by the destabilization of the region and how much the peoples of the region have suffered major talking from israel israel is not such a such an innocent party in all this i mean that. they occupied the lands of all their neighboring. states they go into lebanon and bomb and strafe they they they dissed they killed people in gaza palestinians in gaza and they do interfere in iraq as well as there was seymour hersh of the famous american jordan a sort of deal that israeli agents. go through iraqi kurdistan and to iran to conduct some but objectivity is and gather intelligence. as part of their effort to

to maybe in future attack attack iran their role in syria is now quite clear with a with a bomb or a bombing. yesterday or the day before yesterday and to and to syria so israel is a very close ally of the united states it's a forward military base practically for the united states and it is playing also a poisonous role in the region. the united gentlemen gentlemen if you don't get into one and i want mayor to be able to reply please do not jump in please do well in terms of israel having a close relations with the united states absolutely sammy says this is the lynchpin of israel's security and in terms of us having wars with other countries some of those wars were justified i've seen the six day war was justified because the arab countries around iran this wanted us wanted to throw us in the sea and this is what they were saying and that was a very justified war but israel's occupation of the west bank justified no i don't

think it is justified and i want to state for the palestinian people because i don't think that anything is going to happen until the palestinian people have a state just like me as an israeli jew has a state we all have to have that right but in terms of you know blaming israel for what is happening in iraq sorry so i mean there are other countries you should look at instead of israel in terms of all the misery that's been brought upon iraq you should look at the neighbors if you look at the saudis iran the u.s. and in terms of peppa saying that iran is in that region to not solve because of this because of because of the psychs picketed agreement because of what happened the first world war i got to write i want to argue that we're not that is not they are in the british under the british and the french did not even invent that the russians also for many years were attacking iran in the early nineteenth century to talk about in china goal a stand treaty which were imposed against iran. and that was totally forced upon iran because of russia's imperialist ambitions and the fact that it was playing a great power game is nothing new the russians were doing it before the british and

the french did it afterwards which brings me back to my original point let me we who is doing it today will have a really really nice day pepito you know that's my point who's doing it today who said germany who rules where the united states and its allies go ahead happy absolutely and the allies like a once again. the seven cent three medieval east house of solved which by the way i assume you have read the latest recommendation by bruce riedel to president obama stay close to king abdullah otherwise there's going to be a lot of instability in the persian gulf but this is the heart of the whole matter dump the house of sold and seventy percent of the problems in southwest asia will be solved ok maira going to give you the last word in the program twenty seconds mayor go ahead fair time i think democracy depends on the people of the middle east outside powers doing to be but at the end of the day it's upon ourselves to look at

that look at the people of egypt they had a democratic revolution without foreign interference i think other people can do it too all right gentlemen thank you for a fascinating discussion many thanks again to my guests in london some paolo and in truth and thanks to our viewers for watching us here rocky see you next time and remember crosstalk.

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